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Permalink Reply by FlyHiFlyLo on February 24, 2011 at 1:09pm

What if the Lakers went into a 5 year dumper? Do you think there would be so many Laker fans after 3 years?

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Permalink Reply by FlyHiFlyLo on February 24, 2011 at 12:01pm

Could it be because Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr and Mark martin haven't won shit in years?

Could it be that tens of thousands of Fair weather/bandwagon fans aren't getting their bi monthly "I told you he's the best" fix?

Could it be that there is a bunch of snot nosed "Kids" running around the track and the second generation of good'ol boys are gone or in crappy cars.. Marlin, Labontes, Elliott, Dale sr, Jarrett, Petty.

Could it be the champion has been the same for 5 f'n years?

Could it be it's not a life or death race with all the pussy ass safety features (I think that's good, but still).

Could it be all the cars are the same shit? A factor the IRL proved to make brand loyalty a joke.

Hard to nail it down to just one thing, but there is plenty... If each one of those factors accounts for a 3-5% drop..... Well there you have it.

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Permalink Reply by NIKAL on February 24, 2011 at 2:03pm

Is NASCAR having declining TV rating and attendance? YES. But saying the COT and brand recognition is the reason is really a joke. Has the Manufactures Brand recognition lessened over the years? YES. But this is not something that happened with the COT. If anything the lines of the COT are much closer to what the manufactures build. What we are hearing of lately is the Manufactures are wanting it to be more recognized then what we have seen in the past.

How many on this site have actually looked at a pre-COT car up close? Those cars were so twisted and flat sided on the right and bulge out on the left is was not even close to strait. From the left front corner to the right rear corner those bodies were twisted close to 8 inches. With the COT it has made the teams make the cars strait and the bodies are not mounted crooked on the chassis. BTW this is why we saw RG and others kicking out the rear ends of the COT a few years ago. They were trying to simulate how the cars were before. NASCAR put a limit and a stop to them turning the rear end housings. Yes the COT has brought new challenges to the aerodynamics of these cars. But before the COT they were making changes all the time to even the field. How many remember hearing them shaving a 1/2 inch of of 1 manufactures spoiler one week and adding more to another the next. Anyone remember the wicker blades on the roofs? Team's used to Sand Bag at Daytona testing so they could get the manufactures to lobby NASCAR and get more spoiler or take some off.

Here are a few pictures of RG's Chevy and Ford's prior to the COT. Can you honestly tell me these cars look more like what is on the show room floor? That Ford sure does not look even close to a 4 door Fusion. At least the decals on the COT look proportional to the body's.

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Permalink Reply by Lucky 7 on February 24, 2011 at 2:07pm

Good points. Did you notice that the rear end on a lot of cars at Daytona were just slightly kicked out to the left this year? Reverse of what they had been a few years ago.

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Permalink Reply by FlyHiFlyLo on February 24, 2011 at 4:18pm

Yes they were twisted as all hell and farther from what the COT is.... But! They were a ford a dodge and a chevy.

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Permalink Reply by NIKAL on February 24, 2011 at 6:44pm

Fly what made the old car more Ford, Dodge and Chevy vs the new car? I know in the past the nose and tail pieces came from the manufactures, but I'm pretty sure those same pieces still come from the manufacture. Isn't that how RG accidentally got the unproved Dodge nose the first time around. Dodge built the nose to fit the Charger decals properly, but NASCAR had yet to sign off on that nose, thus we had Nose Gate!

Really if you strip off the decals on the old car can you tell the Dodge from the Ford? The only difference I could see was the opening in the grill. But that is looking at a still photo. Put these on the track at 185 mph and I would have a hard time even seeing that.

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Permalink Reply by FlyHiFlyLo on February 24, 2011 at 7:13pm

I'm talking 00-02ish plus the factories did a lot of sharing within the teams . They were a distortion no doubt but they didn't have an ES to conform to. The 1/4 windows ect... There is nothing different now from one car to the next.

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Permalink Reply by NIKAL on February 24, 2011 at 7:23pm

OK got it. Yes there seemed to be more factory hands on support (Not just money) back in the late 90's and early 2000's before the COT. The manufactures were in the wind tunnels with the teams back then. Now you would be right as it is more the teams and NASCAR in the tunnels as it is their templates these cars are boxed into.

I could be wrong, but in the 90's wasn't the manufactures required to supply the roof and rear deck lid to the teams too? I think that might have changed with the development of the roof flaps. Jack Roush made a killing on that deal.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Kenyon on February 24, 2011 at 8:58pm

@Fly, NIKAL lots of valid points,but 'BODY' identity has little to do with the decline of spectators.IMO
Personally I believe the decline starts with Brian France's greed. By Na$crap's dictatorial policies,business model,what ever,ect.Starting with TV/Media coverage,conflicting advertising partners.
As bad as cookie cooker track are,cookie cutter driver's is worse.Driver's dictated into media darlings (Na$crap's media) removes the personality from the sport.In the spirit of the loss of Big E this was the start of the end of driver personality.Big E would'nt have stood for cookie cutter drivers. (he probably would have called you out if you had, since he alway's had the media's ear)
The COT switched the cars from the manufacturer trademark to car being Na$crap's trademark making manufacturer's buy the right's from Na$crap, HUGE change.
And until something drastic happen's nothing will change,Just my opinion.
P.S. Personality is one of many reason's I'm a Robby Gordon fan.

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Permalink Reply by J.R. Sands on February 24, 2011 at 9:28pm

Thanks Mike, there's times when I'm watching a race and it seems more like a Iroc race because of the COT and Brian F. Robby, to me, is what a real racer is all about.....That's why I feel lucky enough to call myself a RG fan. IMO

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Permalink Reply by WJM on February 24, 2011 at 5:01pm

When NASCAR started drinking their own Kool-Aid in believing the "show" was bigger than the sum of its parts, that's went it went downhill.

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Permalink Reply by GasOnRobby on February 24, 2011 at 8:51pm

Exactly!

We all know NASCAR runs surveys to help determine what will bring in the new fan. I think the problem is the new fan is fickle and prefers the "show" over a good race. A newbie from the outside doesn't know what it takes to put together a winning package and what goes into running the race.

Parity sucks but apparently parity sells. I don't like parity in racing, football, baseball, etc. I think those with the most and best should win. Most and best doesn't always mean money but money always helps. The COT limits innovation and doesn't let teams like RGM develop the next best thing. Go a little out of the box and they fine the life out of you. Instead you are spending millions on the littlest thing to gain a 1000th of a second. Only the biggest teams can afford this.

My issue with manufactures proceeds the COT. Cars should be based on factory shells. If GM builds a brick then they should race a brick. If win on Sunday means sell on Monday then they will not build a brick.

I wish TV broadcasters would help teams by mentioning the sponsors more. Others have said it more elegantly. I would welcome 'Speed Energy Dodge' more often than Robby Gordon. Actually, I would just like to hear Robby Gordon every once in a while.

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